Sinners & Saints

14 comments so far

1. Jan 11, 2009Anonimo   #

   You talk about decorum in the worship service and liken it to an attitude and ambiance similar to that of a courtroom and you do well. My question, however, is does our clothing (i.e. baseball caps, beach shorts, etc) also have to manifest the reverence and awe we are to have for God when he calls us to worship? Do your churches have a rule for clothing? Also, on a personal note, a pet peeve of mine is the incessant looking for gum, taking a sip of starbucks coffee or searching for a tic tac that is no unnerving…what do you think?

2. Jan 12, 2009Rev. John Sawtelle   #

   Anonymous
   I have not been willing to make a connection between clothing and reverence. The only qualification I would make is if the clothing is revealing and presents a stumbling block. As far as coffee slurping, that is definitely out of place; worship is no place for eating and drinking except for the body and blood of Christ.

3. Jan 12, 2009Xavier Robles   #

   Wasn’t everyone eating and drinking when Jesus spoke his sermons? Are we to expect that no one was eating or drinking when Paul was preaching for so long that people were even falling out of windows? C’mon guys, maybe we ought to question our own commitment to reverence and focus during the worship service if we are so easily distracted by such miniscule relative issues. No one is threatening the Eucharist either, that’s ridiculous. For example, when I’m preparing to sing the psalms and notice my throat is parched and decide to get a slurp of water (or does this reasoning only apply to coffee?), should that be considered a direct threat to the Lord’s Table? Or maybe I was just thirsty? Now is being thirsty a sin or irreverent? Perhaps I’ve misunderstood how to show reverance all along. Is reverance to God DOING particular things or ABSTAINING from certain things? I didnt know reverance entailed so many bi-laws. Anyway, I really can’t imagine any real christian trying to disrespect God with their fleshly gum chewing and coffee slurping.

4. Jan 12, 2009Anonimo   #

   “Wasn’t everyone eating and drinking when Jesus spoke his sermons?”

   I don’t know, were they?

   “Are we to expect that no one was eating or drinking when Paul was preaching for so long that people were even falling out of windows?”

   I don’t know, are we?

   Those are valid questions, I suppose, though the conclusion is assumed, and I’m not sure it’s warranted.

   “C’mon guys, maybe we ought to question our own commitment to reverence and focus during the worship service if we are so easily distracted by such miniscule relative issues”

   If worshiping with reverence and awe are “miniscule relative issues” why would holy writ go to the extreme to command us to “so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our ‘God is a consuming fire.”?

   “Is reverance to God DOING particular things or ABSTAINING from certain things?”

   It is to “worship God acceptably.” Which is to say, only as he has commanded in scripture. By the way, the previous podcasts on the second commandment are good are instructing us in this biblical perspective.

   “Anyway, I really can’t imagine any real christian trying to disrespect God with their fleshly gum chewing and coffee slurping.”

   That’s precisely the erroneous thinking that needs to be avoided; namely, leaving it up to man to decide what is reverrent and what is not.

5. Jan 12, 2009Xavier Robles   #

   I think we are taking on too much of a burden when we say that a sip of water before a psalm is in violation of the Regulative Principle. This kind of slippery slope seems a bit legalistic. I’m not convinced that it’s utterly clear, from the scripture, that sipping tea for a cold throughout the service is “adding to the worship service,” or “another form of worship.” THESE would be unwarrented conclusions. Furthermore, the issue of irreverent gum chewing and sipping water is miniscule, not the reverance for god itself. No one would ever really say that, except for maybe a straw man. This issue cannot even be placed into a “circumstantial” category when dealing with the regulative principle, seeing as how it has NOTHING to do with contributing to any circumstances of the worship service. Quite frankly, I don’t see a strong aurgument for showing this issue and acceptable reverance to be mutually exclusive.

6. Jan 14, 2009Captain Morgan   #

   What happened to the Drink, Chew, etc. posts? Guess the “theology with an edge” has been blunted.

7. Jan 15, 2009Rev. John Sawtelle   #

   In order to mollify some brothers we decided to pull those, but I am sure there are some boot-legged versions out there somewhere. Perhaps one of our readers will supply your need.

   jsaw

8. Feb 19, 2009Vic   #

   The Second Helvetic Confession says this about this particular topic:

   Chapter XX

   Meetings For Worship Not To Be Neglected.

   As many as spurn such meetings and stay away from them, despise true religion, and are to be urged by the pastors and godly magistrates to abstain from stubbornly absenting themselves from sacred assemblies.

   Modesty And Humility To Be Observed In Meetings.

   And as we believe that God does not dwell in temples made with hands, so we know that on account of God’s Word and sacred use places dedicated to God and his worship are not profane, but holy, and that those who are present in them are to conduct themselves reverently and modestly, seeing that they are in a sacred place, in the presence of God and his holy angels.

   The True Ornamentation Of Sanctuaries.
   Therefore, all luxurious attire, all pride, and everything unbecoming to Christian humility, discipline and modesty, are to be banished from the sanctuaries and places of prayer of Christians. For the true ornamentation of churches does not consist in ivory, gold, and precious stones, but in the frugality, piety, and virtues of those who are in the Church. Let all things be done decently and in order in the church, and finally, let all things be done for edification.

9. Feb 25, 2009Rev. John Sawtelle   #

   Thanks Vic, that is good stuff. The Second Helvetic Confession, is always worth considering.

10. Apr 5, 2009Susan   #

    Dear Mr. Robles:
    If you bring your McBreakfast into the sanctuary, and proceed to unwrap it and eat it during the service, including during the scripture reading, pastoral prayer, singing of psalms, and preaching of the word, what do you think you are focusing on? Where is your attention? Is it divided? What about the attention of the 8-year-old sitting next to you or behind you?

11. Jun 29, 2009Eric   #

    What is your opinions on head coverings? I see that Calvin held that women should cover their heads in church with cloth, and that also goes for Knox, and Luther. I also see that it seems this stance was never really addressed, but just faded away. Do you think Calvin held a false view on 1Cor11?

12. Jul 3, 2009Rev. John Sawtelle   #

    Eric
    This is a very difficult passage. You are correct that Luther and Calvin believed women should wear a head covering in worship as a sign of submission. I am not convinced that this passage deals with public worship, and therefore I am not willing, at this point to argue for head coverings. It seems to me that anyone who reads the passage in this way, will also be forced by the logic of their argument to also allow women to pray and to prophesy publicly in worship as v5 indicates. I am currently preaching through 1 Corinthians, and you can be sure, I will address this when I get there. So check back in several months, and you will receive a more a complete answer.

13. Jan 5, 2011Javier   #

    I’ve benefited greatly from these shows, when are they coming back?

14. Jan 5, 2011Rev. John Sawtelle   #

    Hopefully very soon my friend!